Poetry meme

[selenite0]

By command of selenesue. "When you see this, post a poem in your LJ."

---

The Sons of Martha

The Sons of Mary seldom bother, for they have inherited that good part;
But the Sons of Martha favour their Mother of the careful soul and the troubled heart.
And because she lost her temper once, and because she was rude to the Lord her Guest,
Her Sons must wait upon Mary's Sons, world without end, reprieve, or rest.

It is their care in all the ages to take the buffet and cushion the shock.
It is their care that the gear engages; it is their care that the switches lock.
It is their care that the wheels run truly; it is their care to embark and entrain,
Tally, transport, and deliver duly the Sons of Mary by land and main.

They say to mountains "Be ye removèd." They say to the lesser floods "Be dry."
Under their rods are the rocks reprovèd—they are not afraid of that which is high.
Then do the hill-tops shake to the summit—then is the bed of the deep laid bare,
That the Sons of Mary may overcome it, pleasantly sleeping and unaware.

They finger Death at their gloves' end where they piece and repiece the living wires.
He rears against the gates they tend: they feed him hungry behind their fires.
Early at dawn, ere men see clear, they stumble into his terrible stall,
And hale him forth like a haltered steer, and goad and turn him till evenfall.

To these from birth is Belief forbidden; from these till death is Relief afar.
They are concerned with matters hidden—under the earthline their altars are—
The secret fountains to follow up, waters withdrawn to restore to the mouth,
And gather the floods as in a cup, and pour them again at a city's drouth.

They do not preach that their God will rouse them a little before the nuts work loose.
They do not preach that His Pity allows them to drop their job when they damn-well choose.
As in the thronged and the lighted ways, so in the dark and the desert they stand,
Wary and watchful all their days that their brethren's ways may be long in the land.

Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat;
Lo, it is black already with the blood some Son of Martha spilled for that!
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, not as a witness to any creed,
But simple service simply given to his own kind in their common need.

And the Sons of Mary smile and are blessèd—they know the Angels are on their side.
They know in them is the Grace confessèd, and for them are the Mercies multiplied.
They sit at the feet—they hear the Word—they see how truly the Promise runs.
They have cast their burden upon the Lord, and—the Lord He lays it on Martha's Sons!

---

I've long identified as a "Son of Martha." Useful work is important to me. But lately I've been reflecting on the line To these from birth is Belief forbidden. Religion has been a difficult subject for me for years. I've explored various paths. Even tried very hard to plunge into one. But there's a core of me that seems to have doubt of everything, and so no matter the faith I can never believe. Maybe this is one of the costs of being a son of Martha and I'll just have to live with it whether I want to be a believer or not.

Comments

[joyeuse13.livejournal.com]

Nice poem.

Belief means accepting something as true without evidence or possibility of evidence. In every other field except religion this is called gullibility or naivté. I feel better off without it, frankly.

Belief

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

There is no such thing as "objective proof". Descartes took skepticism to its logical conclusion by deciding to doubt everything, even his own existence. His conclusion was that because the senses can be fooled, the only thing he could know FOR SURE was his own existence: cogito ergo sum, "I think, therefore I am". The knowledge of his own existence could not be doubted because he did not perceive his own existence via the senses -- he WAS his own existence. In other words, he knew that he existed because he knew his own existence directly, without use of the physcal senses. In so doing, Descartes demonstrated that there's really no way to know for certain if anything outside of our own existence is real. Any "evidence" that X or Y exists external to our minds is always going to be perceived by our senses, and since sensory experiences are subjective experiences, then any knowledge gained via the senses is subjective as well. Thus there is no such thing as "objective" evidence, and any claim of "objective proof" via sensory evidence is prima facie invalid.

Given this, the best we can do is to make a leap of faith and believe that what our senses tell us corresponds to an external reality. The alternative is solipsism. As long as we are willing to make that one leap of faith, the universe makes sense -- but make no mistake: doing so means that we are believers. Therefore, all men who accept the existence of reality external to themselves are believers. The only question left to ask, then, is "In what should I believe?"

The Christian religion is a rational religion. It teaches that the existence of God can be demonstrated from both the evidence of the heart AND by logical deduction from the evidence of natural world. Yes, it requires a leap of faith to accept the Gospel, but once one examines the evidence and reasons the proposition out, that leap turns out to be astonishingly small. (I have some books you can borrow on this topic if you like.)

For me, the logic of God's existence runs like this:

1. Every work of art is the creation of a living, intelligent artist.

2. The Universe (including the human person) bears the hallmarks of a work of art.

3. Therefore, a living and intelligent Artist exists.

The Christian faith teaches that God is a just judge, and that those who truly WANT to believe in God but cannot bring themselves to accept His existence without "objective proof" will not be unjustly judged. In other words, God knows the deepest desires of every man's heart and will not cast aside those who truly wanted to know Him but could not despite their best efforts. If you truly want to believe in God but can't, you can rest assured that God knows your true desires and will treat you with love when the time comes for all men to account for their lives. (This same Divine Mercy applies to those who may believe in other religions besides Christianity; God, who sees all men as they truly are, will not condemn anyone who did their best to serve Him, even if the form their service took was false.)

And don't worry about God throwing you in Hell for your honest doubt. God sends no one to Hell. The only people who go to Hell are those who CHOOSE to go to Hell, i.e. the ones who KNOW of God's existence and Divine love but who reject it on the basis of pride (i.e. "better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.") I can't see you falling into that unhappy category.

I'm not trying to preach you a sermon here. The battle for belief you face is one I share, as do all men. Doubt is part of every believer's life. In my experience, the best way to respond to Doubt is to simply act AS IF God exists and wait for my faith to be refreshed. After all, even if one doubts, there's little to be lost by treating one's fellowman with respect, loving one's neighbor, and so forth.

Finally, here's a suggestion: each night before you go to sleep, turn your thoughts toward God and say, "God, I want to believe in You, but I can't. If You exist, please make Your existence obvious to me in a way I cannot deny." I promise you that God will respect that prayer if it is made with an honest heart, and will somehow give you the assurance you need before you die. If not, let the words of that prayer be your last words, and die with a clear conscience.

Re: Belief

[noumignon.livejournal.com]

If you truly want to believe in God but can't, you can rest assured that God knows your true desires and will treat you with love when the time comes for all men to account for their lives. (This same Divine Mercy applies to those who may believe in other religions besides Christianity;

My religious group (the Wisconsin Lutherans) taught differently. "Thou shalt have no other gods," etc, etc. Exceptions for other faiths, babies, and people who wish they believed, are for sissies.

[tmc4242.livejournal.com]

Amen. >;->

Re: Belief

[selenite.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I'll think about that.

Re: Belief

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

The Catholic Church (which is the one started by Jesus) has always taught that Jesus is the only way by which man may achieve salvation.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation". How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

Source

Yes, "Outside the Church there is no Salvation" -- but we mere humans have no way of knowing who is and who is not "outside of the Church" in the Eyes of God. We are not allowed to judge who is and is not saved here on this Earth. That is the hallmark of the Pharisee. Each man's soul is for God to judge, not man -- and we can rest assured that He will judge everyone justly. After all, we know that God wants all men to be saved, and as Sovereign of the Universe, God may save whomever He pleases in whatever way He pleases. It is not for us to know HOW He will save any given person; we can only know that whomever IS saved achieves eternal life through Jesus -- in some way, shape or form.

"Shall not the Judge of all the Earth do right?"

?

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Please prove that you yourself exist.

Re: ?

[tmc4242.livejournal.com]

Sorry. I refuse to collapse that wave function. Uncertainty is much more fun in this respect.

Re: ?

[selenite.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it's lots of fun to collapse joyeuse13's wave function.

Re: Belief

[noumignon.livejournal.com]

Hm, thanks. That would seem more of a majority view, then, for excusing heathens and babies. I don't think "we mere humans have no way of knowing who is and who is not 'outside of the Church' in the Eyes of God," is contained in that text, that's a separate epistemological question. IMO selenite is still screwed. Knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, he would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.