Career Guidance

[selenite0]

Every couple of years I see someone bemoaning the lack of Americans signing up to be engineers. Here's the latest example. It outdoes its predecessors by proposing an advertising campaign to tout the virtues of getting a technical degree. "It would reassure moms and dads across the nation that technology does a brain good -- that majoring in the sciences is not a ticket straight to the back of the unemployment line."

WTF?

Those majors are generally considered the most likely to land you a job. The reason they're not getting flooded with people is because they're hard. It's a lot more work to get an engineering or biology degree than most majors. Parents are usually all for it, since they don't have to do the work and get the benefit of a kid who can afford a place of his own.

So what's the real reward for all that hard work? If you're lucky, some incredibly cool technical work. I've gotten some of that, more than most of my colleagues I suspect. But most of it is drudgery (like my current job). It doesn't help that Dilbert is a documentary at least much as it is a comedy. Lots of engineers see their good work trashed by random changes, or are forced to do lousy work to keep their bosses happy.

If the leaders of the tech industry want to have more engineers coming out of American schools, the best advertisement they can have is a line of older engineers saying "I love my job" and "Dilbert doesn't work at my company." If they want to hire cheap engineers right of out of school so they can get rid of senior workers I don't want to help them. And I won't encourage kids to walk into the trap unless they like the work enough to accept the price.

Comments

[snippy]

I have gone back to school, at age 44, hoping to study engineering. How do I find out if I would enjoy it as a career? How likely is it that I will be able to get a job? Must I get a post-grad degree to be employable?

[hornedhopper.livejournal.com]

Depends on what kind of engineer, most likely. I *can* tell you that civil engineers are in extremely short supply in Arizona. The Teflon Spouse is one and is having the dickens of a time finding engineers to hire for his projects.

[snippy]

Too early to tell what kind--there's a survey course but they're not offering it this term. I am interested in civil, electrical, and materials engineering at this point.

[hornedhopper.livejournal.com]

With civil, it seems that you can get a job in private and public sectors, in most areas of the country. The salary is good, but not as much as many other *professionals*, for instance as an attorney makes. I can't say for any other disciplines.

Good luck!

[selenite.livejournal.com]

There's probably local chapters of the professional societies for each of those in Portland. Attending some meetings could be good research.

[selenite.livejournal.com]

Enjoying it, that's tough to guess without knowing you well. If you like details and puzzles it's a good sign. You need a practical orientation, we rarely get to reach the ideal. Math isn't as necessary as the professors make it sound (frankly, most of the technical stuff in an engineering degree is never, ever used by working engineers).

Getting a job isn't bad for entry-level engineers. Check your major against where you want to live. Lots of industries are getting concentrated into a few major hubs. This is a big deal for aerospace, petroleum, and maritime engineers. Not so much for software, civil, and mechanical. Also, consider if you're eligible for a security clearance before getting into aerospace or other fields with lots of government work.

Post-grad degrees are strictly optional. Mine hasn't made much difference to my career.

[snippy]

I like details and puzzles and getting things right--I'm a legal secretary, and all of those things have been useful to me in this job.

I want to live here. Portland, Oregon. We've got a few major employers (Intel, Tektronix) and a lot of minor ones.

What kinds of things would make me ineligible for a security clearance?

One of my friends, who works at Intel, says her department won't even consider resumes without a PhD, even though you don't need one for the job--it's a filter to cut down on the number of people you have to look at.

[hornedhopper.livejournal.com]

I have a family member who works at Intel. I think, from what he's said, that Intel tries very hard to maintain an *academic* atmosphere, with sabbaticals every 7 years and other perks that one usually would find in a tenured faculty position. That may account for the greater "respect" for advanced degrees than other companies in the private sector.

[selenite.livejournal.com]

Clearance problems--Drug use. Criminal convictions. Sexual "deviance" is now officially tolerated, but best to not attract attention. Associating with people from countries on the bad boy list (China, Russia, Iran, etc.). Bankruptcy, alcoholism, other signs of poor judgement. Also things that you could be blackmailed over.

As for Intel, Hopper's take sounds right. Some companies just like credentials. Though cutting edge chip manufacturing research probably does take PhD.

[snippy]

I won't have clearance problems, then.

Ah, yes, my friend works in fab design. That would explain it.

[hornedhopper.livejournal.com]

"If the leaders of the tech industry want to have more engineers coming out of American schools, the best advertisement they can have is a line of older engineers saying 'I love my job' and 'Dilbert doesn't work at my company.' "

I have been saying this ever since I married the Teflon Spouse. Fortunately for him, he *loves* being a civil engineer, and his worst nightmare is the thought of extended vacations or retirement (g). However, because civil engineers are in very short supply, at least here in Phoenix, he is having to work FAR more hours than even he is comfortable with as a workaholic! Most of the engineers they hire are foreign born; not because the company doesn't want to hire native-born Americans, but because most of the people in the engineering school are foreign. Or are engineers emigrating from their countries to America because we need their skills.

What I want to know is, WHERE are the parades for the engineers? Just think of all the ways an engineer (from each discipline) has improved our daily lives. Then wonder why a basketball player or football guy or movie star, etc., ad nauseum, gets paid a stellar salary...and engineers don't.

Just my little pro-engineer rant!

[kd5mdk.livejournal.com]

"It would reassure moms and dads across the nation that technology does a brain good -- that majoring in the sciences is not a ticket straight to the back of the unemployment line."
I presume this is in opposition to those who see all jobs as being outsourced.

Reader, I married him.

[carbonelle.livejournal.com]

As did my mom and my (prettiest) sister. Maybe they should focus on the "likelihood of marrying blonde cuties?" We can use really old photos for me :-)

In the same, ah, useful vein, here's Dewey's take on the subject

Re: Reader, I married him.

[hornedhopper.livejournal.com]

Snort!

[noumignon.livejournal.com]

the best advertisement they can have is a line of older engineers saying "I love my job" and "Dilbert doesn't work at my company."

Instead, a 58-year-old engineer I ran into wrote: "Every engineer I know over 50 advises young people not to major in engineering or computer programming. In the U.S., these are bad career choices. If you look at the professions where there are alleged shortages—nursing, teaching, engineering and computer programming—they all have something in common. They are underpaid and underappreciated."

I'd give even odds that the decline in engineering students is our economy adjusting to somewhere it might have competitive advantage -- a good sign, not a decline. Unless they've all just been drawn into their Playstations.