selenite0: (Bush)
[personal profile] selenite0
John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address:

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
. . .
In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it. And the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

George W Bush's Inaugural Address:

For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny - prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder - violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders, and raise a mortal threat.
. . .
We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.
. . .
So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.
. . .
The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations. The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it.
. . .
When the Declaration of Independence was first read in public and the Liberty Bell was sounded in celebration, a witness said, "It rang as if it meant something." In our time it means something still. America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world, and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength - tested, but not weary - we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom.

Date: 2005-01-20 09:22 pm (UTC)
archangelbeth: An exhausted mom with glasses and brown hair, and an enthusiastic blond kid. (Mommy)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
Ah, just so you know -- that particular slogan on your icon is... lending itself to some very snarky and unflattering quips. I don't think it's as Bush-positive as you might want it to be, since the horsemen are the ones bringing all that cruft to the human race, if I recall the story rightly.

(Though if we could have the Discworld Death, well, he's a very sympathetic sort.)

Date: 2005-01-20 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
Oh, it was clearly created to be anti-Bush, I found it in someone's rant against him. I just like the joke, and have a certain ironic glee in using it for pro-Bush posts. Kinda like the gay community grabbing "queer" for a label. I wasn't looking for something very Bush-positive as there's a lot of things I don't like about him. I'd have cheerfully switched horsemen if I saw one I thought could do a better job.

What makes me like it on the serious level is that we are facing an apocalypse of one kind or another. The stable end states I see are new democracies in much of the world, or the establishment of an Islamofascist Caliphate, or genocide in one or both directions. Any one of those is a radical change from today's world, even the one I want.

Date: 2005-01-21 12:54 am (UTC)
archangelbeth: An egyptian-inspired eye, centered between feathered wings. (Default)
From: [personal profile] archangelbeth
Oh, okay, so long as it's not, like, official. It makes my brain gnaw at my restraints, though. O:>

I do like the scales of morbid curiosity. O;>

Date: 2005-01-21 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
It makes my brain gnaw at my restraints, though

Then my work here is done. :-)

http://www.absurdnotions.org/page35.html

Date: 2005-01-20 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
And Hogfather is one of my all-time favorites.

Date: 2005-01-20 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joyeuse13.livejournal.com
I'd be more impressed with the speech if I thought a) he understood all the big words and b) he was as concerned w/ promoting liberty and ending tyranny in his own country as "throughout the world."

Date: 2005-01-20 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] desert-vixen.livejournal.com

Yes. But that wouldn't be as convenient or make as good a speech.

The speechwriters don't suck eggs too badly, I'll give them that.

I like the icon much, selenite.

DV

Date: 2005-01-21 09:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhubert.livejournal.com
I don't like Bush at all, but I don't believe for a moment that Bush is as dumb as many people make him out to be.

Date: 2005-01-21 09:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhubert.livejournal.com
Inspiring words, indeed. It's just that after the first term, most of the world have lost their faith in the USA.

So how can he show that he truly wants to create a better world, and not just a (for the USA) more convenient one?

I'll be waiting. But I must admit that I am not holding my breath...

Date: 2005-01-21 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
Watch the actions. Judge the results. Compare to what he'd said years before. And let me stress comparing to what Bush had actually said, not the little bits the newspapers publish.
From: [identity profile] abovenyquist.livejournal.com
> In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its > hour of maximum danger.

Bush's speech was big on the ends, but not too detailed about the means. If we can do it without declaring war on most of the countries on earth, fine. His immediate advisors just seem a bit too-trigger happy.

Defending freedom is one thing... inflicting it on other countries via force may be a bit oxymoronic, though. Should Kennedy have cajoled NATO into storming Eastern Europe? If we had gained advantage and the Soviet engaged in a scored earth policy, would the "free" Eastern Europeans have been better off in the end?

I wish Bush would look more to his Reagan for inspiration. If the undisciplined Bush administration had been in the shoes of the Reagan administration and faced the crises they faces, we'd probably all be glowing right now and buying earrings for our third ear.

America - not just Bush - has a huge credibility gap to overcome. We overthrew a democratic government in Iran and put the Shah into power. We've spent decades supporting hated regimes. We've created, or supported regimes that have created, much of the simmering resentment of which Bush speaks. Every time I hear the "they hate us because we're free" B.S. I want to scream. There are many folks in the world who hate us for very particular reasons.

We have started to overcome it - just the tiniest start. It lies in the purple thumbs of the Iraqis. The U.S. promised something, and finally delivered. But we have a long way to go, and many decades of bad decisions begun during the cold war (supporting Saddam, for one) to undo.
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
Here's someone who hates us because we're free:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/105/22.0.html
From: (Anonymous)
Someone who hates us because we're free? The article says exactly the opposite, if you take it at face value. It doesn't mention moral values or culture anywhere.

Quotes:

"America is hated because they are aggressors against Muslims in Afghanistan,
Lebanon, Somalia, Iraq, Palestine, or by supporting corrupt, puppet Muslim regimes such as the Saudis, Egypt, the Gulf states, and the Shah of Iran."

"9/11 was not an attempt to conquer America, but rather an act of retaliation. Its aim was to force America out of the Muslim world by inflicting the same pain on them as they inflict on Muslims."

"Peace could come if America withdrew its forces from the Muslim world, stopped exploiting Muslim resources such as oil, have decent relationships with Muslims, and stopped supporting the Zionist aggressors and Muslim puppet governments."

And even though this is one of the most extreme pro-jihad articles you can find (in English), and openly espouses placing the whole world under Islamic law, he says "Realistically, it" - global Islamic rule - "will probably occur through intellectual da'wah [Islamic missionary activity]".

I don't see much difference between this and the most extreme US 'Christian' sects, who also feel they are justified in espousing terrorism and want to convert all unbelievers.
From: [identity profile] selenite.livejournal.com
The extreme Xians aren't putting death sentences on citizens of other countries as the interviewee did, or killing unbelievers by the hundreds and thousands (9/11, Nigeria, Thailand, Sudan, etc.). Saying all non-Muslims are rebel criminals against God. is a clear statement that he rejects freedom of religion. Yes, members of other religions can practice, but only as a subject class. And until Sharia law is practiced worldwide that guy and his ilk consider themselves justified to attack at any time. It's our choice to make our own laws, not obey sharia, that's the root of the war.

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